Curse

Tuna · Jun 22, 2005, 07:49 PM // 19:49

If you play GUILD Wars PvP in random 4v4 arenas you can't expect much. If you want coordination and planing etc. you have to *gasp* join a guild! Random 4v4 is sort of akin to a pub iceworld in CS.

Moskel · Jun 22, 2005, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

when did I say I was leaving GW to play CS? I play both regularly...I cant pub in cs for more than 5 minutes before I'm banned from the server for hacking...so I only play scrims/matches...when I'm not playing CS I play PvE Guild Wars.....whether I'm playing "real" PvP or "fake lions arch PvP" doesn't change the fact that having 0 control over your characters ability to move/dodge without clicking a skill that gives you "75% better chance to dodge" is not my idea of a fun PvP environment.

This shows how little you know or understand about GW, you can dodge in GW, any spell based projectiles, wand damage, and arrows. You can certainly move your character out of location based AoE spells like Firestorm or Meteor Shower, just because it was cast doesn't mean you have to stand around in it.

You can use terrain to completely negate anyone that requires LOS from being able to attack you while countering with spells of your own that don't require it.

As far as this being "turn based" as you posted on this thread also. You either have no understanding of what "turn based" means or choose to ignore what you know...in a "turn based" game you have a predetermined or potentially infinite amount of time to make a decision on your "turn" while the other player CAN NOT DO ANYTHING.

Picture this in GW --Elementalist on Team 1 casts Lightning Orb, it is now the turn for Monk on Team 2, Monk on Team 2 casts heal other on the target of the Lightning Orb, it is now the turn of Warrior on Team 1, Warrior on Team 1 is AFK, battle pauses for 5 minutes while he comes back and decides where to use his "movement points". That is "turn based", GW is very much a real-time game. Yes you can 'only fire your X every 1.75 seconds, in a turn based world you wouldn't have a time associated with an action, you'd have a number of TURNS. Seconds are not a measure of turns since they happen in parallel for all of the players on the field of battle, turns happen in serial.

JoDiamonds · Jun 22, 2005, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yamat

I play GW, and I play CS... I think the "skill" element of PvP GW is minimal in comparison to a game like CS, for one reason being that you can't go and read a web site on CS and suddenly be a superb PvP player, whereas you can with GW.

OK, fine, since I said I'd argue this point, and you want to troll it out of me, I will.

Reading will not make you superb in either game. Reading can make you better in either game. There is no difference there.

Quote:

CS skill is acquired over time, GW can be learned.

Uhhh.... what's the difference here? Acquiring a skill over time is learning.

Read more about the game: You will improve, up to a certain amount.
Play live PvP vs. other players and your skill will improve, up to a certain amount.

These are both true for CS and GWs.

Algren Cole · Jun 22, 2005, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by hydrak

Yea. This is true for most online games. More skills = more and better hacks.

Guild Wars will eventually be included in that statement....it's inevitable

Algren Cole · Jun 22, 2005, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moskel

This shows how little you know or understand about GW, you can dodge in GW, any spell based projectiles, wand damage, and arrows. You can certainly move your character out of location based AoE spells like Firestorm or Meteor Shower, just because it was cast doesn't mean you have to stand around in it.

maybe we're playing a different game...but when ranger scouts shoot arrows me...whether or not I move those arrows hit...I can't 'dodge' in GW...and neither can you. You can move out of the meteor shower yes, but you can't dodge an attack. AND if by chance I do happen to move out of the way of an attack...I still have to stop, lock onto a target, and then attack...making dodging attacks almost useless.

hydrak · Jun 22, 2005, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

when did I say I was leaving GW to play CS? I play both regularly...I cant pub in cs for more than 5 minutes before I'm banned from the server for hacking...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

Guild Wars will eventually be included in that statement....it's inevitable

Will you find Guild Wars more exciting when this time comes?

Algren Cole · Jun 22, 2005, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by hydrak

Will you find Guild Wars more exciting when this time comes?

being banned for hacking in CS doesn't mean you hack....it generally means you're better than the admins.

and no...if I wanted to hack in Guild Wars I would be hacking by now.

Yamat · Jun 22, 2005, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoDiamonds

Uhhh.... what's the difference here? Acquiring a skill over time is learning.

Sorry, I should have said "taught" instead of "learned".

You can teach someone to be a good GW PvP player, you can't teach someone to be a good CS player. You either have good hand-eye coordination, or you don't. Yes, you can get it better through practice, but you will only go so far, and never be great.

Mr_Intangible · Jun 22, 2005, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Counter Strike shouldnt even be COMPARED with Guild Wars by the simple fact that Counter Strike is a SHOOTER and Guild Wars is a MMO! Just because there PC games doesnt meen there the same thing.

Algren Cole · Jun 22, 2005, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_Intangible

Counter Strike shouldnt even be COMPARED with Guild Wars by the simple fact that Counter Strike is a SHOOTER and Guild Wars is a MMO! Just because there PC games doesnt meen there the same thing.

they're being compared because they are both PvP...

hydrak · Jun 22, 2005, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

being banned for hacking in CS doesn't mean you hack....it generally means you're better than the admins.

and no...if I wanted to hack in Guild Wars I would be hacking by now.

If you wanted and tried to hack in guild wars, you would be banned by now. The devs wanted you to hack in guild wars, more ppl banned and more account keys sold as a result.

Algren Cole · Jun 22, 2005, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by hydrak

If you wanted and tried to hack in guild wars, you would be banned by now. The devs wanted you to hack in guild wars, more ppl banned and more account keys sold as a result.

how would the devs even know? most hacks are client side....adn therefore the server has difficulty establishing between which packets being sent back are legit and which packets have been altered or 'spoofed'....

hydrak · Jun 22, 2005, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yamat

You can teach someone to be a good GW PvP player, you can't teach someone to be a good CS player. You either have good hand-eye coordination, or you don't. Yes, you can get it better through practice, but you will only go so far, and never be great.

So true... You can't teach someone to be a good CS player. To be a good CS player, you need third-party programs, and that can't be taught.

Mr_Intangible · Jun 22, 2005, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Oo...all this hacking...its like ninja/metal gear solid...stealthy...wooo!!! But to be honest hacking is horrible and malignant towards the MMO community!

hydrak · Jun 22, 2005, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

how would the devs even know? most hacks are client side....adn therefore the server has difficulty establishing between which packets being sent back are legit and which packets have been altered or 'spoofed'....

I understand where you are coming from... Most people who just download and use third-party programs for all their past online games would say the same thing.

Santosh · Jun 22, 2005, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

knowing when to click a skill....is not skill itself. I GET the picture...I just think it's stupid. Standing there and hoping i have enough health to outlast the person I am attacking without any real means of dodging or evading is asinine and should not be incorporated into a PvP game. IT IS a mindless click...it's pretty easy to tell what skills to use and when to use them...it doesn't take much thought.

Yes it is a skill. You just to see it differently. Maybe you are referring to the platform that both games are played.

Skill can be based on physical skill or mental skill or a combination of both. However you look at it, dissect it, turn it upside down, it is a skill.
What is the difference in the "mindless click" you refer to, or knowing what skills to use and when as opposed to the stuff you do at CS? I've played CS. You say it doesn't take much thought, therefore it's not a skill? Well, if you take your time in CS to think, you're dead. CS is based on quick thinking and following it through with action. Same goes with GW PvP.

JoDiamonds · Jun 22, 2005, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yamat

Sorry, I should have said "taught" instead of "learned".

You can teach someone to be a good GW PvP player, you can't teach someone to be a good CS player.
...

That is all true. There are similar analogies for GuildWars.

You can teach someone to be a better CS player, like you can do for GWs players. It varies some, sure; having someone teach you CS skills might not get you as far as teaching someone GWs skills. However, you really won't do very well in either game without a lot of practice. It's easy to say "Anyone can just read about GWs and be really good at it", but I strongly doubt that's true. I think someone who has never played GuildWars is going to be pretty awful if they just read about it.

(One tricky bit in this discussion in particular is that playing PvE does count partially towards learning to play PvP. That's sort of true for CS too, in that playing single player definitely helps train you for PvP, if you've never played it before. In neither case will single player experiences help a lot for being good in PvP, but it's a huge step up over never having played at all.)

Quote:

...
You either have good hand-eye coordination, or you don't. Yes, you can get it better through practice, but you will only go so far, and never be great.

GWs is more tactical and requires more thinking on the fly. Someone who isn't very smart or just has trouble paying attention to many things at once will never be great at GuildWars.

In pretty much all games, there is some amount of natural talent (whether it be hand-eye coordination or a brilliant military mind or whatever). And in most games, you can get better by someone instructing you, and by practicing.

hydrak · Jun 22, 2005, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Let's not compare CS to GW. CS and its Hacked PvP don't count, whoever has more hacks is the winner. And stop crying or complaining about GW PvP simply because you can't use hacks.

Algren Cole · Jun 22, 2005, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by hydrak

Let's not compare CS to GW. CS and its Hacked PvP don't count, whoever has more hacks is the winner. And stop crying or complaining about GW PvP simply because you can't use hacks.

do you have anything intelligent to add to the conversation or are you only good for unfounded accusations?

the number of hackers in league play (PAST CAL-O)...is so small it's not even relevant.

Bu7ch · Jun 22, 2005, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by hydrak

Let's not compare CS to GW. CS and its Hacked PvP don't count, whoever has more hacks is the winner. And stop crying or complaining about GW PvP simply because you can't use hacks.

You're right...Script Kiddies run CS. Calling them hacks are laughable to me because a great majority of the community don't even know how they work much less how to develop a hack (or hell how to hack anything).

Edited: pub servers is what I'm referring to